2003 Saturn ION Logo
M
Michael Wilcox Posted on May 27, 2014
Answered by a Fixya Expert

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No power going to ignition control module, what would cause this?

Switch relay from the defrost relay to the run/crank relay. for the run/crank relay was getting hot. But there is still no power going to the ignition control module.

  • Michael Wilcox
    Michael Wilcox May 27, 2014

    My car does not have an alarm or anti theft protection, it is a basic model.

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1 Answer

montehammons

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  • Saturn Master 5,531 Answers
  • Posted on May 27, 2014
montehammons
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Yes, the pink wire to the ICM and from the run/crank relay should have battery voltage in run or start. If not, check fuse 11, a 10 amp fuse in the Fuse Block-Underhood. Also check fuses 38- a 30 amp fuse supplying power to the run/crank relay, and fuse 9- a 10 amp fuse between the run/crank relay and the ECM. All of these fuses are in the underhood fuse block.
Fuse 38-the 30 amp fuse, the power feed for the run/crank relay- will be hot at all times. Fuses 9 and 11 will be hot in run or start. Check for power at the fuses. If the relay is not turning on and sending power to those fuses and to the ICM, and the ECM, (and to the injectors through fuse 16 - a 10 amp fuse), then work back to the ignition switch and the body control module. Wish I didn't have to say that, but yes, the BCM is between the ignition switch and the run/crank relay.
Good luck, Michael.

  • 8 more comments 
  • montehammons May 27, 2014

    Try this: pull the relay out and check for two power signals on the terminals it plugs into with key on. With key off, only one terminal should show power- the power feed from the 30 amp fuse. With key on, you should also the signal from the ignition switch to the relay's coil side. If it's not there, the switch or the bcm is failing you.

  • Michael Wilcox
    Michael Wilcox May 28, 2014

    I have done all tried all these suggestions thank you. Car died due to compression issue. Which compenants would cause the icm not to get spark. I got power going to fuse box and all fuses are good. Can tell if the connector to the icm is the issue, how can I figure that out?

  • montehammons May 28, 2014

    The pink wire is the primary current for the ignition coils. It is hot in run or start. When the computer sends a signal to the ICM, the icm cuts the primary current to the coils, and that is what causes spark to be created -out of the secondary windings of the coils, and to the spark plugs. the icm controls the ignition coils to create high voltage from them for spark at the plugs. The ecm controls the icm-it tells the icm when to cut the primary current to the coils. other parts of the ignition circuit would include the crank position sensor. The ecm computes timing of the spark depending on information from the crank signal. But it all depends on the coils getting power on the primary circuit-and that is what the pink wire to the icm does: a constant 12 volt power supply.

  • Michael Wilcox
    Michael Wilcox May 28, 2014

    Ok check voltage on the pink wire at the connector from the harness, it is not getting 12 volts. The wire looks fine, not frayed, What could be not allowing the power to come to the the connector?

  • Michael Wilcox
    Michael Wilcox May 28, 2014

    Is it possible to change connector without change the whole wire harness?

  • montehammons May 28, 2014

    Then the run/crank relay is not sending power to the pink wire through fuse 11. Do you understand this relay? It is vital that it sends constant power to the icm and to the injectors, and to the ecm. The relay has two sides-a power side (fuse 38, 30 amp fuse supplies the power side), and the coil side of relay-the ignition switch in on should send a current signal to the coil side. When the coil has energy it closes contacts in the relay on the power side so power is sent out on the power side. By cycling the key to on, you should feel the relay click under your finger. If it doesn't, pull the relay out, and check for voltage on the terminals it plugs into. With key on two terminals should show power-the feed on the power side, and the voltage from the key switch on the coil side. If you don't have this coil side signal, the relay won't turn on and send power out. If you can't get a voltmeter's leads into those terminals good, then use a wire or paper clip into the terminals and sticking up enough to test for power. If the key switch is not sending a signal there, either the switch or the BCM is not sending this signal to the relay.

  • montehammons May 28, 2014

    Before changing the connector, see if the relay is sending power anywhere. Pull off an injector connector and check for a steady 12 volts on one of the injector's connector terminals. Or pull fuse 11 or fuse 16: with key on, one terminal of each fuse place should have voltage on it. this is power from the run/crank relay. If you have power there on any of those places, the relay is on and the connector might be the problem. You can stick a straight pin into the pink wire before the connector anywhere and check for voltage there. If good voltage the connector is bad. If no voltage, you are back to the run/crank relay. You can also jumper the relay terminals on the power side and send power to the pink wire and to all the other things the relay supplies. The wiring diagram for the relay showing the power side may be etched on the side of the relay. throwing out all kinds of suggestions to try and help you figure it out. with a voltmeter you can check a lot. you switched relays-did they have the same part number?

  • Michael Wilcox
    Michael Wilcox May 28, 2014

    Thank you for all your guidance, I figured it out, it was a blown fuse 11, look at the other day it was fine, nevertheless it fixed the issue, The car is running again. Thank you all again!!

  • montehammons May 28, 2014

    Jumpering the relay's power side may help you. then the engine should start up and run. Usually on relays, the power side is terminals 87 and 30. See if your relay has these designations-either on the side of the relay or the bottom. 87 and 30 are the power side, and usually 85 and 86 are the coil side. See if your relay has these numbered terminals for it. if it does, jumper 87 to 30 where the relay plugs in-then the pink wire should have voltage, and i would bet the engine would start. good luck again, michael.

  • montehammons May 28, 2014

    okay, glad you found it. High 5's!

×

2 Related Answers

emissionwiz

Marvin

  • 85242 Answers
  • Posted on Sep 14, 2010

SOURCE: my starter will not engage,

it sounds like you have a anti theft system problem, the system can self test with a GM dealer scanner, but the problem must be duplicated by the dealer to fix it.

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Randy Ohler

  • 14585 Answers
  • Posted on Dec 02, 2010

SOURCE: Ignition Control Module Price:$113.99

Replacing all this you surely set the alarm off. Turn the car on, don't start . let sit for ten minutes, turn off, don't remove the key. do this three times. after the third time you turn it off, if it was the security, then the car should start. Let me know And we can go fdrom there.
Randy

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• Heating, ventilation, and air conditioning module (HVAC)
• Ignition control module (ICM)
• Instrument panel cluster (IPC)
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• Transmission solenoid circuit

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. The 3-wire Ignition Switch table below illustrates the state of these inputs in correspondence to the ignition switch position:

To diagnose this problem hooking up a professional or factory scan tool an doing a full system scan for codes .


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The run/crank relay control circuit is connected to a constant ground and is switched by the ignition 1 circuit or the BCM. The BCM, will in lieu of the ignition switch position, activate the Run/Crank relay during a remote start event. The Run/Crank relay supplies a power signal to the following circuits, when the a Run or Crank power mode is selected:
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• Electronic ignition module (spark control)
• Electronic power steering module (EPS)
• Fuel injectors
• Powertrain control module (PCM)
• Park neutral position (PNP) switch


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Serial Data Power Mode Master
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Run/Crank Relay
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your best bet , take it to a qualified repair shop .
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Circuit Description
When the ignition switch is turned to the Start position, the body control module (BCM) receives battery voltage on the ignition 1 voltage circuit, and less than 5 volts on the off/run/crank voltage circuit. The BCM supplies voltage to energize the RUN/CRANK Relay 32. The BCM sends a high speed GMLAN serial data message to the engine control module (ECM) that the key is in the start position. The ECM receives the message from the BCM, and also receives a serial data message from the transmission control module (TCM) containing the shift lever position. If the shift lever is in Park or Neutral when ignition switch is turned to Start, the ECM supplies voltage to the START Relay 31. The START relay supplies voltage to the S terminal of the starter solenoid, through the 30 A STRTR Fuse 26, in order to crank the engine.

Power to many of this vehicle's circuits are controlled by the module that is designated the power mode master (PMM). This vehicle's PMM is the body control module (BCM). The PMM controls which power mode (Run, Accessory, Crank, Retained Accessory Power, or Off) is active.
Serial Data Power Mode Master
On vehicles that have several control modules connected by serial data circuits, one module is the power mode master (PMM). On this vehicle, the PMM is the body control module (BCM). The PMM receives 3 discrete ignition switch signals to differentiate which power mode will be sent over the Serial Data circuits. The 3-wire Ignition Switch table below illustrates the state of these inputs in correspondence to the ignition switch position
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I have a 2006 chevy uplander when shut off no start batt dead and ignition fuse in bjb replace fuse and still no start or crank no power to cluster cluster dead on commute back

Need better info.
when shut off no start batt dead and ignition fuse in bjb replace fuse and still no start or crank no power to cluster cluster dead on commute back ????????? What about ignition fuse ? It was blown an you replaced it or you just replaced it ???? When you shut it off no restart ,the battery was dead ? Test battery , battery cable connections , charging system - is it charging ?
First off your probably unaware of how this vehicle works , This vehicle is powered up by the BCM turning on relays an sending commands over the serial data bus (network) ,do you know what that is ? The ignition switch is a low voltage input to the BCM .
Circuit Description (Key Start)
For ignition switch power modes refer to Body Control System Description and Operation . When the ignition switch is placed in the Start position a discrete signal is supplied to the body control module (BCM) notifying it that the ignition is in the Start position. The BCM then sends a message to the powertrain control module (PCM)/engine control module (ECM) notifying it that CRANK has been requested. At the same time the BCM is supplying 12 volts for the IGN 1 relay closing it and supplying battery positive voltage for the crank relay coil. The PCM/ECM verifies that the transmission is in Park or Neutral. If it is, the PCM/ECM grounds the control circuit of the crank relay. When this occurs battery positive voltage is supplied through the switch side of the crank relay to the S terminal of the starter solenoid.

Check the Ignition 1 relay -
Relay Controlled Power Mode
The body control module (BCM) uses the discrete ignition switch inputs ignition 1, ignition 3 and crank to distinguish the correct power mode. Once the BCM has determined the power mode selected by the vehicle operator it will energize the Ignition relay, Run relay and retained accessory power (RAP) relay, depending on which power mode is selected.
Ignition 1 Relay
The relay uses a Hot At All Times B+ power source derived from the underhood electrical center. The ignition 1 relay supplies a power signal to the following circuits when the Run or Crank power mode is selected:
• AC clutch relay
• ABS STG angle sensor
• Antilock brake system (ABS) yaw sensor
• Auxiliary power drop connector
• Crank relay
• Cruse control switch
• Electronic brake control module (EBCM)
• Engine control module (ECM)
• HVAC module
• Ignition control module (ICM)
• Instrument panel cluster (IPC)
• Sensing and diagnostic module (SDM)
• Transmission solenoid circuit
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2006 grand am starts by its self won't shut off

What after market products do you have , if any ? Have you done any electrical repairs ? Could be a ignition switch problem , GM has had switch problems for sure . The starting of your vehicle is computer controlled by the BCM - body control module . The ignition switch could be sending a wrong input to the BCM ,causing it to start .Power to many of this vehicle's circuits are controlled by the module that is designated the power mode master (PMM). This vehicle PMM is the body control module (BCM). The PMM controls which power mode (Run, Accessory, Crank, Retained Accessory Power, or Off) is active.
Serial Data Power Mode
On vehicles that have several control modules connected by serial data circuits, one module is the power mode master (PMM). On this vehicle, the PMM is the body control module (BCM). The PMM receives 3 discrete ignition switch signals to differentiate which power mode will be sent over the Serial Data circuits. The table below illustrates the state of these inputs in correspondence to the ignition switch position: If this came to the dealer I work at the first thing I would check is the ignition switch inputs to the BCM . I would use Tech 2 , GM factory scan tool .

Relay Controlled Power Mode
The body control module (BCM) uses the discrete ignition switch inputs ignition 1, ignition 3 and crank to distinguish the correct power mode. Once the BCM has determined the power mode selected by the vehicle operator it will energize the Ignition relay, Run relay and retained accessory power (RAP) relay, depending on which power mode is selected.

good luck !
0helpful
1answer

I have aa 2007 chev her with 2.22 liter some of the fuses don't get power and some do on the fuse box block under hood everything to start and run car is dead

2007 Chevy her ? HHR ? 2.2L 4cylinder , check the run/crank relay ! Relay # 51 in the under hood fuse/relay box.
Power to many of this vehicle?€™s circuits are controlled by the module that is designated the power mode master (PMM). This vehicle?€™s PMM is the body control module (BCM). The PMM controls which power mode (Run, Accessory, Crank, Retained Accessory Power, or Off) is active.
Run/Crank Relay The run/crank relay control circuit is connected to a constant ground and is switched by the ignition 1 circuit or the body control module (BCM). The BCM, will in lieu of the ignition switch position, activate the Run/Crank relay during a remote start event. The Run/Crank relay supplies a power signal to the following circuits, when the a Run or Crank power mode is selected:
?€¢
Automatic transmission shift indicator


?€¢
Automatic transmission (A/T)


?€¢
Switched power feeds to the BCM


?€¢
Electronic brake control module (EBCM)


?€¢
Electronic ignition module (spark control)


?€¢
Electronic power steering module (EPS)


?€¢
Fuel injectors


?€¢
Powertrain control module (PCM)


?€¢
Park neutral position (PNP) switch

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