HOW MANY FUSES AND RELAYS DOES IT HAVE TO CONTROL THE FANS....THANKS.......
SOURCE: Radiator Fans 1999 plymouth grand voyger
My answer:
I answered a similar ? at Yahoo Answers awhile back, and it solved that person's problem on their 1987 Jeep.
Though you weren't very specific as to your 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee's
problem by just saying the fan motor doesn't work, I'm taking it that
we are talking about the "radiator fan motor" here.
You most likely have a two-fold problem going on with your radiator cooling fan.
Seeings a new fan motor didn't solve the original non-op problem we can
definitely establish that the old fan being bad really wasn't bad at
all and NOT the problem to start with.
As with any 12-volt DC automotive motor (whether for the radiator
cooling fan, windshield wiper motor, interior passenger compartment
cooling/circ fan, etc) a simple disconnected from the car's electrical
system test should have been done 1st to make sure the old fan motor
was really bad. Too late for that now though. I myself would have
seriously doubted that a 6 year old fan motor would have been bad
already.
If you had no recent engine or radiator related mechanical work done to
the Jeep - as of late - then the problem may not even be a bad wiring
harness connection, but you never know.
If all the radiator fan Temp related Sensors & Thermal Switch
connectors are properly seated then we need to look at yet another
possibility having eliminating a wiring connector type problem.
On most radiators with an electric assist fan(s) there is also an
electric Thermo Sense switch (TS) mounted on the radiator itself that
has to be working properly otherwise this fan switch could stick in the
CLOSED position (set point usually 190 degrees F) leaving the fan to
run all the time while the engine is running. Make sure it is connected
as to the wiring connector, as I've seen this connection get pulled
apart from other engine related work being done or else from a
bad connector itself.
If this TS goes bad and someone disconnects it so as to stop the fan
from running all the time - then it may look like the fan itself is bad
when it really isn't.
On the other hand this TS switch could actually stick in the OPEN
position (though this is very rare with this type of Thermal switch),
and then the fan wouldn't run at all, and the engine would probably run
HOTTER then normal as a dead giveaway. If your engine is running HOTTER
then normal I would go directly to this TS and check it for proper
operation. It's usually mounted on the radiator fan bracket nearest the
radiator with a separate 2-wire wiring connector.
If it's working properly - when the ignition is turned off - the fan should still turn off as it is
usually controlled by a timed RELAY circuit as a failsafe. Does it??
Hopefully you don't have any engine cooling problems to start with, but if you do follow the guidelines below:
If the engine thermostat is sticking CLOSED, or indeed stuck CLOSED,
that could also cause the fan to run excessively. Running plain water
in the engine and not proper 50/50 antifreeze/coolant mix can also
cause the engine to run much hotter then normal and thus adds to
running the radiator fan more frequently then normal.
Excessive radiator fan running leads to just one thing,
and that is worn out bearings. Some of these fans aren't made that good
to begin with!
If the fan is indeed 'tired' or has a tendency to try and freeze up
there should be safeguards to prevent wiring from burning up.
Most radiators have 2 thermo-switches (TS), one being an ambient
radiator surface mounted TS, and the other one being an internal
(screwed into) radiator mounted TS. There might even be a 3rd fan TS
that is clipped directly to the fan motor case itself to sense an
over-temp situation like that from the fan bearings freezing and the
fan itself running hotter then normal. Just depends on car maker design.
There is also a TIMER RELAY module incorporated in all CA equipped cars
as part of the SMOG packaging for cars sold here in this state. Reason
for that is to reset the pre-warm circuit properly when restarting the
car back up after shorter run and stop trips. If this relay is bad it
could cause the fan to run on longer then normal after shutting off the
vehicle, thus causing undue wear and tear on the fan motor also. I used
to think it also helped to clear out any fuel fumes from under the hood
after running the engine, but could never prove it or have it verified
by my own minivan maker when I owned a minivan??
NEVER DRIVE THE JEEP WITHOUT THE FAN MOTOR BEING CONNECTED!! You will surely damage something you don't want to!!!
To check the radiator fan circuit do the following:
I would first disconnect the battery from the circuit, and do any
resistive type DVM meter checks first (unless you are unsure of how to
do them), and then do the following checks below to check out the fan
motor and related sensors/switches with power reconnected. If you have
a lot of MEMORY type devices onboard your Jeep (Stereo, GPS, etc) you
might want to use a simple 12-volt TEST LIGHT or again a good DVM to
trace for a good ~12-volt battery voltage at point-to-point connectors
instead, so as not to lose those memory settings.
First check the wiring leading to and from the fan motor itself and
the TS (1
or possibly 2) connectors to make sure they are snapped together fully
and making good connections. Also check the GROUND WIRE coming off the
fan motor connector - as if this ground point is dirty or corroded
causing a bad ground return path then the fan motor will appear to be
dead as well.
Next check the fan itself for free-play. Is it turning freely or is it
very tight or hard to spin?? If so - you have a bad fan and it's time
to replace it NOW! (In your case it doesn't appear to be a bad fad fan motor at all.)
If you are handy with a digital volt meter (DVM) connect it in DC
series with the fan motor and while running the Jeep measure the
current and compare it to a new fan's rating. If it's excessive then
the fan motor is on it's way out. Time to replace. (Skip this part too, as your fan is known good.)
VERY IMPORTANT STEP HERE - Also check those 1 or 2 TS switches to
make sure they are in the OPEN setting with a COLD engine/radiator.
CHECK AGAIN to make sure they CLOSE at the proper engine temp as well.
If they don't close at or near 190 degrees F then one or the other (if
there are 2 or more in your system) may be bad, and that may very well
be your only problem.
If Jeep has added a FUSE or FUSIBLE LINK to the fan circuit make sure
you check that part also. It's doubtful though, as the fan circuit is
fairly simple by design. A Timer Relay type Switch would be downstream
of the/any TS switch(es) by design as well, so I would place my money
1st on a bad TS switch, or a possible bad ground connection 2nd.
Does not appear to be anything else that excessive as it looks to just be isolated to the radiator fan circuit itself.
Hope this helps you out to troubleshoot the problem. Feel free to email me if you still have further ??'s.
Frank
AND THEIR REPLY WAS:
posted by djvanh on Aug 13, 2008
We are being told that it is the PCM that is causing the fan not to work. Can we replace the PCM with a remanufactured one?
Thanks
AND MY REPLY WAS:
I guess I better ask you a couple of ?'s before going any further here
- as I'm not getting back any feedback at all as to what I posted
previously.
No past history - no past to present attempted fixes - no troubleshooting feedback.....
The reason I say this is because now you are saying > We are being
told that it is the PCM that is causing the fan not to work.
This has me asking - WHO is telling you that the Powertrain Control
Module is supposedly bad? By WHO I mean - Jeep dealership - auto repair
garage - your friend - who?
I need to know what steps you took to get to this new revelation point - as to the fan supposedly not working?
Please be very specific, and not just a 1 or 2 line reply - as that
won't help me pinpoint the problem at all. After all - you have the SUV
there (wherever you are located state/city wise), and I don't.
Also - do you have the/a service manual (Haynes or Chilton Auto Manual for your year & make Jeep)?
When I get your feedback we can proceed forward.
Thanks,
Frank
1 - Highly degreed in Electronics first of all.
2 - Worked for 2 SEARS AUTOMOTIVE STORES, one on the East Coast and the
other one still being the largest SEARS AUTO in CHICAGO at 6-corners. I
specialized in troubleshooting all auto electrical problems - including
battery testing and charging system testing and repair. Graduate of
DeVry in Chicago also!
3 - Troubleshooted, repaired, and replaced many water pumps,
thermostats, fans, TS units, and radiators on all types of vehicles and
makes and models. I hate those stupid internal water pumps on many of
the *** Honda and similar autos as that is the dumbest design I've ever
seen! Stay away from buying one of these headaches!! Timing belts
(non-metal type) are just as bad!
SOURCE: 1998 plymouth grand voyager cruise control relay/fuse location?
Check under hood in box marked fuses & relay, on drivers side and look under cover of it for I.D.
SOURCE: fans want turn on and the 1999 plymouth grand voyager over heats.
the cooling fan module is located under the air cleaner box on the radiator core support. very common problem .it is flat and about 3 inches long held on with 2 5.5mm bolts.
SOURCE: Front blower motor doesn't work, rear does
check or replace your front blower motor resistor. this is the most common problem aside from a bad blower switch. you could also try to recalibrate your system but that usually doesn't work. I'm betting on the resistor.
SOURCE: My 2000 plymouth neon cuts off on me after i
If your check engine light is coming on, then there should be a trouble code stored in your computer to tell you what area to look in for problem. Run into an autozone, or Pep Boys & get a free scan and see what they say comes up for codes & then if not obvious what the problem is, get back to us & we'll help you out.
Testimonial: "hey thanks for the advice, i did what you said and the code was a p1390. do you have any clue on how i can go about fixing whatever the problem is?"
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