Vespa GT-200. Engine starter motor engaging when key is in off position and kill switch active. When engine running can here starter motor whirling sound. Do you think its a faulty CDI?

What you are describing Steve, sounds like a faulty ingnition switch. The 'start' position is only a 'momentary' contact that when released removes power from the starter motor circuit but leaves power to the 'ignition' so the engine will continue to run. It kinda sounds like the contact that maintains connection to the 'ignition' circuit is faulty. You should not run it the way you described because you are also probably keeping the starter motor engaged along with the engine which will kill the starter soon.

Ignition switches are 'plug and play' meaning if you obtain an exact replacement, you just unplug wires either one at a time and place them on the new switch or remove the molded plug and plug it onto the back of the new switch (if it is supplied with a molded plug).

When I turn the key nothing happens.
There are several elements that go into cranking (turning over) the engine.

1. Battery
2. Fuse
3. Key Switch (and wiring)
4. Starter Solenoid and wires
5. Starter motor

To begin with check the fuse. It's a 20amp car style fuse located under the hood near the battery.

If the fuse does not fix the problem let's move on to the battery. The quickest way to make your initial check of the entire starting system and particularly the battery is to get a jump. Yep, get some jumper cables and jump the mower off your car. Turn the key and try to start it in the normal fashion(normal meaning YOU in the seat, PTO off, BRAKE pressed all the way down). If it starts cool! It is likely a bad battery.

• Charge the battery for a few hours, on a charger.
• Then perform a voltage measurement of the battery.
• Switch a volt meter to DC Volts and clip it to the battery. It should read between 12-13 volts. If not the battery is suspect. If it is 12-13 volts see if it will crank, but continue to watch the volts. If they drop below 10ish volts, the battery may have a bad cell.

Now let's check the starting system while bypassing all the safety switches and wiring. How? You can perform this test simply by jumping the starter solenoid. Hold a wrench or fat screwdriver across the two large posts of the starter solenoid. This bypasses the key switch and all safety devices and directly drives the starter. Your starter will crank if the battery and starter are good, the wires and connections are good, and the engine is not locked up. Don't crank it for more than a couple seconds. You just want to verify the battery and the starter are both in good shape. (The engine will crank but not start during this test as long as the key is off, or if the safety switches or wiring are damaged, or if the safety switches are in the no start/run positions.)

If the starter cranks try one more test. Run a small jumper wire from the positive post of the battery to the little terminal on the solenoid. You may have to take the small wire off the positive terminal of the starter solenoid, in order to do this. When you apply this current from the battery to the positive terminal it should make the solenoid activate and the starter crank. This test bypasses the key switch and shows you the starter system is working. You could do this test first; if it works you do not need to do the basic jump test.

If these tests cause the engine to crank, but it will not crank with the key, then you know you have a problem somewhere in your starter wiring, safety switch system, fuse, or in your Key Switch. Of course you did check the battery terminals for tight, clean connections, right?

Most modern riding mowers have the following 4 safety switches:

• Seat switch
• PTO switch
• Reverse switch (RIS) and Reverse Relay (RIO)
• Brake/Clutch switch

If you need detailed instruction for testing your wiring and safety system, I will need your complete machine info.

• Make
• Model
• Year
• Engine Model
• Transmission Model
• Deck Size.

On a John Deere (100 series) the starting current flows through the following items in this order:

1. Battery to Fuse then to the Key Switch.
2. With key switch in the start position, the current flows from the Key Switch to PTO.
3. With PTO off, current flows from the PTO to Brake/Clutch Switch
4. With Brake/Clutch Pedal all the way down, the current flows through the switch to the starter solenoid.
5. If the Starter Solenoid is in good shape, the solenoid connects the battery to the Starter and the engine cranks. Cranking does not mean running; it just means the engine turns over. Running is dependent on many other systems.

Those components are all part of the cranking/starting system. They can prevent the Starter Motor from cranking when you turn the Key Switch. You can trace the voltage with a multi-meter. Connect the black lead to ground and look for 12 volts at each successive switch. If the voltage disappears at one particular step, there is your suspect.

Electrical elements that are NOT part of the starting system:
The RIO is the Reverse Implement Option. It is a switch that latches and stays latched under certain conditions. It is activated by the RIS. The RIS is the Reverse Implement Switch. It activates the RIO.These switches are called slightly different names by different manufacturer, but they all do the same thing. These two separate components work to allow the blades to cut while you are backing up (without killing the engine). They have nothing to do with the starting system.

The Seat and the RIO (the reverse latch not the button) switches are tied into the engine kill system. They provide a ground path for grounding the Coil. This same system controls the fuel shut off valve beneath the carburetor. The Seat and RIO can keep the engine from running but they will not prevent the Starter Motor from cranking. Therefore, if you turn the key and nothing happens, the problem has nothing to do with the Seat and Reverse switches.

Note: With the Key in the RUN position, power flows from the Key Switch to the Hour Meter, then to the RIO latch relay (not the RIS button), then to the fuel shut off solenoid. If you do not hear the Fuel Shut off Solenoid clicking on and off when you turn the Key Switch from off to run, there may be a problem in this circuit; including a possible problem in the Hour Meter. Of course none of this affects the cranking circuit. Your engine will still crank, it just won't start and run.

The source of the clicking sound is likely the starter solenoid. Typical solutions are:
- Charge the battery (it has too low of voltage).
- Remove corrosion build-up on battery terminals, solenoid wire terminals and ground wires.
- Replace solenoid (it won't engage and only clicks).

When I turn the key nothing happens.
There are several elements that go into cranking (turning over) the engine.

1. Battery
2. Fuse
3. Key Switch (and wiring)
4. Starter Solenoid
5. Starter motor

Let's start with the battery. The quickest way to make your initial check of the entire starting system and particularly the battery is to get a jump. Yep, get some jumper cables and jump the mower off your car. Turn the key and try to start it in the normal fashion. If it starts cool! It is likely a bad battery.

• Charge the battery for a few hours, on a charger.
• Then perform a voltage measurement of the battery.
• Switch a volt meter to DC Volts and clip it to the battery. It should read between 12-13 volts. If not the battery is suspect.

Now let's check the starting system while bypassing all the safety switches and wiring. How? You can perform this test simply by jumping the starter. Hold a wrench or fat screwdriver across the two large posts of the starter solenoid. This bypasses the key switch and all safety devices and directly drives the starter. Your starter will crank if the battery and starter are good and the engine is not locked up. Don't crank it for more that a couple seconds. You just want to verify the battery and the starter are both in good shape. (The engine will crank but not start during this test if the key is off, or if the safety switches and wiring are damaged, or in the no start/run positions.)

If the starter cranks try one more test. Run a small jumper wire from the positive post of the battery to the little terminal on the solenoid. You may have to take the small wire off the terminal, on the starter solenoid, in order to do this. When you apply this current from the battery to the terminal it should make the solenoid activate and the starter crank. This test bypasses the key switch and shows you the starter system is working. You could do this test first, if it works you do not need to do the first more basic test.

If these tests cause the engine to crank, but it will not crank with the key, then you know that you have a problem somewhere in your starter wiring and safety switch system.

Most modern riding mowers have the following safety switches:

• Seat switch
• PTO switch
• Reverse switch (RIS) and Reverse Relay (RIO)
• Brake/Clutch switch

If you need detailed instruction for testing your wiring and safety system, I will need your complete machine info.

• Make
• Model
• Year
• Engine Model
• Transmission Model
• Deck Size.

On a John Deere (100 series) the starting current flows through the following items in this order:

1. Battery to Fuse then to the Key Switch.
2. With key switch in the start position, Key Switch to PTO.
3. With PTO off, PTO to Brake/Clutch
4. With Brake/Clutch Pedal all the way down, the current flows to the starter solenoid.
5. If the Starter Solenoid is in good shape, the solenoid connects the battery to the Starter and the engine cranks. Cranking does not mean running; it just means the engine turns over. Running is dependent on many other systems.

This list of components are all part of the cranking/starting system. They can prevent the Starter Motor from cranking when you turn the Key Switch.

The RIO is the Reverse Implement Option. It is a switch that latches and stays latched under certain conditions. It is activated by the RIS. The RIS is the Reverse Implement Switch. It activates the RIO. These two separate components work to allow the blades to spin while going backwards (without killing the engine)

The Seat and the RIO (the reverse latch not the button) are tied into the engine kill system by grounding the Coil. This same system controls the fuel shut off value beneath the carburetor. The Seat and RIO can keep the engine from running but they will not prevent the Starter Motor from cranking. Therefore, it you turn the key and nothing happens, it has nothing to do with the Seat and Reverse switches.

Note: In the run position, from the Key Switch, power flows to the Hour Meter, then to the RIO latch relay (not the RIS button), then to the fuel shut off solenoid. If you do not hear the Fuel Shut off Solenoid clicking on and off when you turn the Key Switch from off to run, there may be a problem in this circuit; including a possible problem in the Hour Meter. Of course none of this affects the cranking circuit. Your engine will still crank, it just won't run.

Hi Melissa,

When you twist the ignition key from the "on" or "run" position to the start position, three things happen to start the engine. They are: a) the starter solenoid is energized [the starter solenoid is needed because the ignition switch has small wires capable of carrying 20 or 30 amps at the most and the starter motor will require hundreds of amps to spin - the solenoid can safely switch this huge amount of current], b) the starter drive gear solenoid (electro-magnet) is energized and physically causes the starter drive gear to move and engage the teeth on the engine's flywheel, and c) the starter motor spins the drive gear. The spinning drive gear turns the flywheel - simulating a very slow running engine. This sets up the timings for spark plug firing, fuel intake, compression, combustion, exhaust, etc. Without spinning the engine the timings wouldn't exist. The same happens when the starter rope is pulled on a typical lawn mower engine - except the starter is the person pulling the rope and the electro-magnet solenoid drive gear is the mechanical, spring loaded spool of rope (that magically is coiled up after pulling to start the engine.

Once the key is released, it defaults by spring action to the "run" position. The run position provides power to the ignition system to provide spark, etc. but electrically disconnects the power from the starter solenoid (and starter motor and drive gear solenoid as a result).

If the starter remains engaged after the key has been released from the start position (and the key moves back to the run position as designed), it could very well be a faulty ignition switch that is failing to open the electrical connection to the start solenoid. You *may* have some success by spraying a liberal amount of "electrical contact cleaner" directly into the key opening on the ignition switch. It will clear dirt, grime and other stuff that doesn't belong in it - so it may drip out very dirty - that means it's doing its job. Work the key in and out of the ignition and twist back and forth while spraying into the lock. With any luck, you'll clean the contacts enough so that it works properly. Never spray graphite or lubricants into the ignition switch - those products can be used on door locks only.

I hope this helps & good luck!

it's not a bug - it's a feature....some people would say...
- actually it happened on mine too after some time when it was new on both brake levers, that means it cannot be a short or something.
but, after some time I got used to it and even got to like it like that.

Assuming that all is well with the vehicle's electrical system (fuses, etc...), the following should work, as Viper/Clifford uses the "fail safe" method of starter disable, and it only works to lock out the starter when the alarm is functioning properly and in the armed state.

That system has a "starter kill" system. When the alarm is actived, the starter kill is engages, and won't let the starter get voltage from the ignition switch. First thing I'd try is connecting the car's battery while the ignition key is turned to the "on/run" position. Cycle the alarm to arm, then disarm, so that the LED is not blinking. It also may require using the manual override button/switch (with the key on) to reset the alarm. Should start after that.

If all else fails, reconnecting the starter wires back together (they are spliced and running through the alarm via a SPDT relay.

- did you ever push the starter button while the engine was running?
if yes, the gear on the starter motor is damaged and needs to be replaced...

Check battery terminals are clean and firmly connected.

Check the transmission neutral interlock switch operation is OK.
Check +12V is appearing on the starter solenoid control wire when the ignition switch is held in the 'start' position.

If above ok, apply +12v directly to the starter solenoid activation control -starter should immediately engage.
If it doesn't run, you likely have a faulty starter motor.

There is NO kill switch on the 2000 Elantra... HOWEVER, there is a thing called the Key Fob (keyless remote entry system). There is, however, a system in place called the 'starter kill' circuit and it is activated when the burglar alarm goes off.... it's called the burglar alarm relay and it is activated to prevent the engine starter system from being used. There are three ways to get the engine started in such a circumstance... 1. use the key fob to 'disarm' the system... 2. put the key in the ignition and turn it to the 'RUN" position and wait until the alarm stops (horn stops beeping and the parking lights stop flashing), then the engine will start.... 3. pull the starter relay from the UnderHood junction box and bypass the starter circuit (key in ignition and in the 'RUN' position), jumper the starter solenoid circuit to energize the solenoid to start cranking the engine -- it should start then.